Older MSAs Bringing them into 2026 Also New builds intro.

For people who build steel guitars

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Wayne Brown
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Older MSAs Bringing them into 2026 Also New builds intro.

Post by Wayne Brown »

Hi Folks
Here we are again, a lot of you folks have conveyed to me that you have enjoyed reading along with my build stories. So with the situation that has effected the shipping part of our business, Outwest Music has had no choice but to change direction for now. It actually lets us take a breather and get back to basics. So with that all said, there are a lot of new projects coming out from us in the future like:

1) We will be soon starting to manufacture/produce our own line of pedal steel guitars. Please follow along with our build thread once it’s posted on this forum.

2) We are also going to be building three one of a kind pedal steel guitars. One D-10 and two SD-10s. We will be using a combination of custom lacquer and tinting finishes, anodizing and a mixture of Outwest newly designed undercarriage in conjunction with existing upper parts from some very well known steels such as MCI, Emmons Legrande, Derby just to name a few. If everything goes well these should be at the very least eye candy.... and like my Rare wood steel 2.0 thread please feel free to follow along as the build progresses. Here is a link to the original Custom steel build 2.0 on this forum in case you wish to re read it.
viewtopic.php?t=384875
Image3055_001_13 by Wayne Brown, on Flickr
Imagekey heads derby by Wayne Brown, on Flickr
Imagederby pedals by Wayne Brown, on Flickr
Imagechanger parts by Wayne Brown, on Flickr

3) Which brings me to the next project. It’s sort of along the same lines as above however, with a flair or twist. Through my career in the pedal steel guitar industry I have always enjoyed feedback on any guitar that is being/has been produced. Giving me more of an understanding of how they are/and were built and how they work. I have enjoyed reading the forums and the contained information also talking with such great builders/repair people as Bud Carter, Del Mullen, Jimmy Crawford, Lynn Stafford, Ricky Davis and a host of many, many others. I have through the years talked with a lot of steel players far and wide, novice to the worlds finest. I got there opinions on a lot of different brands and models of pedal steel guitars. So which brings me to the next topic of conversation.

NOTE: IN MY OPINION ONLY (this is not a debate thread).

In my opinion on every guitar manufactured there is a design flaw or something that makes it unique. You can also see the builder’s train of thought through the progression of the build to get the desired results and in some cases continuing on with different models, brands. I will not get into my opinion on these as I think they are all great guitars and were built with a specific outcome in mind and intended usage.
Older MSA’s, are no exception to this observation and are arguably one of the most stable platforms that has been produced. I in fact have a beautiful one seen here on the above link and I absolutely love this guitar.
Opinions told to me by players on these guitars through out the years the MSAs were long lasting and built like a tank however they had a few short comings…

• One, Is the use of plywood cabinets on the classic and semi classic models which was probably a cost saving and time measure to get these guitars to market. It was well established/known that there were a lot of these guitars manufactured from 1966 to 1983. However, I am a firm believer in real wood is better for harmonic resonance. As for examples, my favorite, Takamine Guitars as well as Martin, Taylor and Gibson just to mention a few. These guitars have a long track record for sounding absolutely wonderful that used real wood.
ImageIMG_8145 by Wayne Brown, on Flickr
ImageIMG_8148 by Wayne Brown, on Flickr

•Another is the guitars had pigeon holes on the changer end plate for the pull rods. This caused three points of contact with the pull rod instead of the modern day guitars with 2 point contact. Therefore in order for the pulls to work correctly the pull rods had to very straight through the changer plate in order not to rub or bind.
Imagemsa end plates by Wayne Brown, on Flickr

•Also I have heard a lot about the sound of the original MSA.
The original MSA single coil pickups @ 11K , The Barcus Berry pickups @ 12K and the super sustain pickups @ 18.7K. I have heard that these could be thin sounding or muddy compared to what is available in today’s market.
Imagemsa single coil by Wayne Brown, on Flickr
Imagebarcus berry by Wayne Brown, on Flickr
Imagesuper-sus- by Wayne Brown, on Flickr

NOTE: Once again this is not a debate thread. Just an observation.

So Outwest is going to address these issues one at a time to make over some older MSAs... to update, make pretty LOL and make them sound wonderful.
First we will be changing out the old cabinet’s, whether it is a plywood classic or an old wood XL for new solid maple cabinets. This will give a fresh new look to an older guitar. As always in this shop we love lacquer guitars and will be making them all with a colorful finish. From blonde to transparent red, green and blues. Maybe even some new and unique ideas as well. Lori is suggesting an old standard (Sunburst)…and I really like pearl additives. Hmmm…Let the testing begin.
Imagemaple wood msa by Wayne Brown, on Flickr

Next we will be fitting these guitars with my favorite steel guitar pickup the BL xlr-16 pickup. This was designed by the late Bill Lawrence and his wife/widow Becky Wilde. She is still making these pickups to this day with all the same commitment to excellence as the originals with one slight small change you can now split the coils from humbucker to single coil. We have bought a lot of them over the last year from her and we will be installing these on our MSA redo’s and all of our production guitars in the future.
ImageBL 2 by Wayne Brown, on Flickr
ImageBL 1 by Wayne Brown, on Flickr

So with the introduction said we will start to test out some color schemes and bring some well deserving older MSAs into the year 2026. Stay tuned folks. .....I will also start the other threads on the forum once we get some of the production done as there are a lot of parts that need to be manufactured for those builds as well. :D
thanks
Wayne
Last edited by Wayne Brown on 27 Jan 2026 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Owner Out West Music,Parts and accessories.
Steel Guitar service and Restoration
www.outwestcountry.ca
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Wayne Brown
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Re: Older MSAs Bringing them into 2026 Also New builds intro.

Post by Wayne Brown »

Well I just got the changer end plates milled out. I had to do a MSA D-10 to begin with so I figured I might as well do the S-10 end plates as well. So 1st I had to remove the vice to have room to clamp the end plates down.
Imagemill 1 by Wayne Brown, on Flickr
Notice the plates on most MSA’s, they have a ledge on them that protrudes the same distance as the end plates themselves so squaring them up is a much easier process than if I had to do 3 axis’s instead of just 2.
Imagemill 2 by Wayne Brown, on Flickr
With the pigeon holes removed now offers a more modern changer to rod connection with just 2 points of contact instead of 3 thus removing a high percentage of the possibility of binding.
Imagemsa end plates by Wayne Brown, on Flickr
Imagemill 3 by Wayne Brown, on Flickr
Imagemill 4 by Wayne Brown, on Flickr
Imagechanger 1 by Wayne Brown, on Flickr
Also on another note please note that on semi classic guitars one of the perks of these holes being removed is it reveals a 2 and 2 classic changer. Which can now be utilized. My milling skills are not the greatest so I will have to do a final finish where I milled and make them all pretty. Then a polish and they will be ready for installation. Moving on…
Last edited by Wayne Brown on 27 Jan 2026 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Owner Out West Music,Parts and accessories.
Steel Guitar service and Restoration
www.outwestcountry.ca
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Aaron Marshall
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Re: Older MSAs Bringing them into 2026 Also New builds intro.

Post by Aaron Marshall »

Nice, thanks for sharing!
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Greg Forsyth
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Re: Older MSAs Bringing them into 2026 Also New builds intro.

Post by Greg Forsyth »

Very interesting Wayne.
Thanks for posting.
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Wayne Brown
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Re: Older MSAs Bringing them into 2026 Also New builds intro.

Post by Wayne Brown »

Thanks guys we will continue with the next step (color testing) next. Once I get some manufacturing out of the way :)
thanks
wayne
Owner Out West Music,Parts and accessories.
Steel Guitar service and Restoration
www.outwestcountry.ca
Sam Inglis
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Re: Older MSAs Bringing them into 2026 Also New builds intro.

Post by Sam Inglis »

Hi Wayne,

Unfortunately I can't see any of your photos, as they just say 'Content not viewable in your region'. Not sure if there might be some sort of setting that needs to be changed?

As the owner of an early 70s MSA Classic I wonder if there are a couple of other design issues that may or may not be improvable:

(1) The cross shafts are circular rather than square in cross-section. As a consequence the bell cranks sometimes lose their grip, especially the ones that are operated using the knee levers.

(2) The weight! Does swapping out the cabinet for real wood make a difference here?
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Wayne Brown
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Re: Older MSAs Bringing them into 2026 Also New builds intro.

Post by Wayne Brown »

I will try to answer all of your questions in point form.
1) I use Imgur.com for my photos. I do not know if they are available where you are. Please go to that website maybe there is something you can do to see them. I will also look at this forum and do some research.
2) There are a few more changes/ updates available on most of these guitars and will discuss them when I come to that part of the project to keep the timeline straight.
3) Msa/Bud Carter used 3/8 stainless round cross shafts for these guitars. I do not want to change the mechanics of these units as they were quite stable and built very robust. If you are overly aggressive with your knee movements this would possibly change the guitar settings in this area.
4) I will post the before and after weight once i have that information at the end of this build
Thanks
Wayne
Owner Out West Music,Parts and accessories.
Steel Guitar service and Restoration
www.outwestcountry.ca
Sam Inglis
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Re: Older MSAs Bringing them into 2026 Also New builds intro.

Post by Sam Inglis »

Thanks Wayne,

I think that explains it. Imgur.com has withdrawn its services from the UK in response to our brilliantly thought-out Online Safety Act (which will totally keep kids safe online and definitely isn't all about monitoring what private citizens say and do). So you would need a VPN to view those photos from here.

I do find that the bellcrank on my LKL has a tendency to creep around the cross shaft over time. I've heard that some people file a flat spot into the shaft to stop this from happening. Not a big deal anyway.
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Wayne Brown
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Re: Older MSAs Bringing them into 2026 Also New builds intro.

Post by Wayne Brown »

Sam I have forwarded the picture request to my wife Lori. She is a wiz with this stuff and is going to pursue the BBCode on this site. She was saying to me that we may have to link a specific page on our website to show the photos here without using a third party...LOL if they show up you will know she found a solution. :) Also a vpn might work to see them here.
On your bell crank you might want to try running a hacksaw blade through the split in the shaft clamp on the bell crank to slightly widen up the space between the clamps.
Thanks
Wayne
Owner Out West Music,Parts and accessories.
Steel Guitar service and Restoration
www.outwestcountry.ca
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Wayne Brown
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Re: Older MSAs Bringing them into 2026 Also New builds intro.

Post by Wayne Brown »

Sam try it now. we have switched image platforms. Please let me know.
Thanks
Wayne
Owner Out West Music,Parts and accessories.
Steel Guitar service and Restoration
www.outwestcountry.ca
Bobby D. Jones
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Re: Older MSAs Bringing them into 2026 Also New builds intro.

Post by Bobby D. Jones »

On the MSA Classic guitar rebuild, Are Adjustable Lower Return springs in your design and plan?
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Wayne Brown
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Re: Older MSAs Bringing them into 2026 Also New builds intro.

Post by Wayne Brown »

Hi Bobby, Yes they are. We manufacture them here
https://outwestcountry.ca/index.php/pro ... -assembly/
This is one of the many little updates
Thanks
wayne
Owner Out West Music,Parts and accessories.
Steel Guitar service and Restoration
www.outwestcountry.ca
Sam Inglis
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Re: Older MSAs Bringing them into 2026 Also New builds intro.

Post by Sam Inglis »

Hi Wayne,

Your pictures are coming through loud and clear now. Thank you.

Sam
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Re: Older MSAs Bringing them into 2026 Also New builds intro.

Post by Jim Palenscar »

One thing you might consider would be to notch the raise scissor where they hit the lower scissor as this can be a problem esp in the 1st string F#-G# and 4th string E-F# changes.
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Re: Older MSAs Bringing them into 2026 Also New builds intro.

Post by Wayne Brown »

Well folks i started the testing yesterday. I am not to happy with the results.
Imageshop 1 by Wayne Brown, on Flickr
Imageshop 2 by Wayne Brown, on Flickr
Imageblue 1 by Wayne Brown, on Flickr
Imageblue 2 by Wayne Brown, on Flickr
I need to do some more research on tinting...WOW is that an artform in itself. It turned out very blotchy. Turns out I was adding the tint in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong spray material. So I will get that straightened out within the next couple of days. I did however like the turnout of the pearl, and/or flake i used on another test. The camera does not do the results justice. But it is a real nice sparkly burnt red :)
Imagered 2 by Wayne Brown, on Flickr
Imagered 1 by Wayne Brown, on Flickr

Jim I have the original tuning specs from Bud himself and the classic, semi Classic changers were never designed for that string one change. However That is a very popular change. I even have it on my Rare wood 2.0, so on that note thanks for that suggestion and i will look into incorporating that change into these MSA's. I did not think about the notch idea i just made the changer opening a little larger to incorporate the extra length needed for the pull. Once again I will look into your idea as the changers are out at this moment.
Thanks
Wayne
Owner Out West Music,Parts and accessories.
Steel Guitar service and Restoration
www.outwestcountry.ca
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Wayne Brown
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Re: Older MSAs Bringing them into 2026 Also New builds intro.

Post by Wayne Brown »

Yesterday I got back to color testing after taking care of some appointments. So after doing a lot of research and trying to understand the products I am using a little better, I think I have got the process figured out.
I am sorry but I have to give a long winded explanation of what and why I am doing so you can follow along and understand what is going on in this next step.

I am trying to use translucent Tints not paint to get the colors I need. Paint is what they call opaque and you cannot see through it.... so mixing it you would have a solid color.
Imagepaint chart by Wayne Brown, on Flickr
With the tints we need to see the beauty of the wood show through.
Imagedyes by Wayne Brown, on Flickr
So like I said in my last post this is an art form in itself…. Now going through learning some of this gave me a whole new level of respect for people like Mr. Giles who are pure craftsman at this stuff.
Anyways with the products I am using (which is my favorite) as it is very forgiving and has spectacular results is called Emtech. I use Em6000 lacquer and now Em1000 sanding sealer.
Imageem 6000 by Wayne Brown, on Flickr
Imageem1000 by Wayne Brown, on Flickr
On my last build "The rare wood steel 2.0" I just used the Em6000 and noticed that it took a lot of coats before the lacquer started flatting out and building properly. The lacquer itself was slowly filling in the woodgrain. Which took a long time and patience to do. I guess the next thing to do would be to read the instructions…well you know if all else fails right? LOL. Emtech was saying in those instructions that you should seal the wood first with the Em 1000 let it dry then sand it before applying the Em 6000 lacquer. Thus making this step more efficient. Now with that said, scouring the internet, looking at tints, tinting formulas, procedures etc. What I found is that the color is treated basically like an automotive base coat clear coat situation. You would spray the base or color. (Em1000) sealing the guitar body and suppling the color you desire. Then you would start to add or spray your lacquer for your clear cote and depth. The procedure is a lot more involved than that but I hope my explanation helps you to understand a little bit of the process.
I got the colors I was looking for without the blotchiness. I got a very nice crimson red, A nice deep green and a very shimmery royal, sapphire type blue.
Imagecolors by Wayne Brown, on Flickr
These are just the sealer cote no lacquer clear cote has been applied. I was just looking for consistency and uniformity in the color. Please forgive the pictures as I just use my phone. It is not the best choice but it works.
So next I guess we will see what these guitars actually need individually before starting the bodies.
Thanks
Wayne
Owner Out West Music,Parts and accessories.
Steel Guitar service and Restoration
www.outwestcountry.ca